legoflamb (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

If you have read far enough. In my post above yours I agree to the fact that the crows have intention in their dropping of nuts into traffic in order to crack them.

QueenOfTheKelpies (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

The most intelligent yet annoying birds I can think of. Used to wake me up all the time, cawing at 6am in the morning.

aefuer (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW

missamberneely (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

Chance? They're deliberately dropping nuts into traffic and waiting for cars to run over them. Its trial and error, which is really the basis for any sort of knowledge. I'm not saying that crows are going to run out and become the dominant species. They aren't. However, they are showing that they can adapt and use their surroundings to benefit themselves. Lots of animals do this, and not just humans/primates.

outbackwallaby (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

Why are things like this are discounted because they involve trial and error? Humans use trial and error! Children use it to learn how the world works. Scientists even use trial and error to test inventions, drugs, theories, etc. They see what works and what doesn't work. In the end it's just a more sophisticated form of trial and error. I think the fact that the crows are trying different techniques to crack a nut open is what shows intelligence. Some animals wouldn't even attempt it.

IM1deadMONEY (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

It seems like the crow is trying to impersonate humans!

legoflamb (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

I can now agree that crows have some form of intelligence. After, doing some more research I have seen enough evidence to prove to me there is intelligence in cows, through their deliberate use of tools, similar to using cars like this video states.

freedomclubLX (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

Simply, intelligence is an hability that is related to learning. And learning is a process of "try and error". It was in that sense that I reminded you that intelligence and chance are related. All of this is pretty much established knowledge, as far as I'm concern. So, that is why I think you cannot dismiss this as an hability by calling it "chance" simply because you cannot put this in terms of what a human would do.

freedomclubLX (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

I didn't say intelligence is by itself an expression of chance alone. I believe you are thinking in what is right in terms of what a human would understand the problem to be. This birds show a skill of adaption in their environment, and that is what some people in this context comment as being "impressive" for what they would expect.

legoflamb (December 31, 1969 at 6:59 pm)

If that is the case then, if someone were to guess 100% of the questions, on a test of 100 questions, with no prior knowledge of the subject, and place a score of 80%+, that would mean they are intelligent on that subject. I highly doubt that would be the true.